Curse

Slasher of Darkness · Oct 30, 2009, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Hey all!

So I recently made a new warrior, and I'm new to the warrior class, but not new to GW. So, I'd like to just ask a few questions, lets start.

1) Which weapon is the most useful in PvE?
2) I've heard that axe sucks in PvE? If that is true, why?
3) Oh and I've heard such a thing like Adrenaline management, how do u manage adrenaline? I know bout e-management but not bout adrenaline management, how does one do it?

Well, that's it, thanks all

.

scythefromunder · Oct 30, 2009, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slasher of Darkness

1) Which weapon is the most useful in PvE?

IMO, Hammers are decent when in a group to keep most things on their arse. Axes are pretty decent when h/hing if used with Asuran Scan and those pve skills. I've rarely used swords...so i have no idea.

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Originally Posted by Slasher of Darkness

2) I've heard that axe sucks in PvE? If that is true, why?

Depends on what you're doing and what your party looks like IMO.

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Originally Posted by Slasher of Darkness

3) Oh and I've heard such a thing like Adrenaline management, how do u manage adrenaline? I know bout e-management but not bout adrenaline management, how does one do it?

I dont know, but if i had to guess, I would think that it meant not spamming attacks just because you have the adrenaline.

Eragon Zarroc · Oct 30, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

d-slash warrior w/save yourselves. very versitile for missions, quests, etc. good for NM/HM alike. lot's of defense for allies with decent dmg output at the same time.

Del · Oct 30, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17

endurance axe works pretty well in pve

Chthon · Oct 30, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slasher of Darkness

Hey all!

So I recently made a new warrior, and I'm new to the warrior class, but not new to GW. So, I'd like to just ask a few questions, lets start.

1) Which weapon is the most useful in PvE?

At the very high-end, sword is the best. Why? First, it's required for the insane (Assassin's Promise +) Mark of Pain + Hundred Blades + Whirlwind Attack combo. Second, Great Dwarf Weapon pretty much obviates the entire hammer line. Third, axe sucks in PvE (see below).

Now, that's assuming you've got some good teammates to play with who are willing and able to synergize builds across the party. If, on the other hand, your teammates are H+H or morons or don't have the classes/skills to run good, synergized builds, then hammer starts to look really good as well because of Earthshaker.

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2) I've heard that axe sucks in PvE? If that is true, why?

Gee, I think you probably got that from my post...

Axe sucks for PvE for 3 reasons:

(1) One of its two original signature mechanics, deep wound, has been usurped by other skill lines to the point that it isn't unique to axe, or even uniquely well done by axe. Daggers, scythes, and spears all have unconditional (or easy-conditional) DW skills that are as good or better than the axe line's. On top of that, Body Blow is essentially a moderately-easy-conditional DW for any melee. And, Finish Him is a weapon-independent, class-independent, ranged, easy-conditional DW.
(1.5) Additionally, deep wound skills, particularly the older axe skills, have high costs that are balanced around deep wound's value in PvP. These tend to be overpriced in PvE, since deep wound isn't as valuable in PvE. In PvP, deep wound is 100 damage, PLUS a strong spiking tool, PLUS a healing reducer. In PvE, it's usually just 100 damage. Since most PvE mobs lack effective healers, healing reduction is usually unnecessary. Ditto that for spikes. (And when PvE mobs do have strong healers, they're often so strong that you can't just spike past them; you need to disrupt them or mess with their AI.) None of this means that deep wound is bad in PvE -- 100 damage is still 100 damage -- just that it's overpriced compared to some other lines' signature mechanics.
(2) Axe's other original signature mechanic, multi-target attacks, has also been usurped by other skill lines to the point that it isn't unique to axe, or even uniquely well done by axe either. Scythes usurped the multi-target role a little. Then Whirlwind Attack came along and finished the job.
(3) Axe is missing the reliable adrenaline-gaining skills needed to spam SY!. If not a Dragon Slash sort of skill, the axe line at least needs a Steelfang Slash sort of skill. Furious Axe doesn't cut it.

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3) Oh and I've heard such a thing like Adrenaline management, how do u manage adrenaline? I know bout e-management but not bout adrenaline management, how does one do it?

I'm not entirely sure what "Adrenaline management" means. I guess it could mean:

? - What I refer to as an "adrenaline engine" -- a set of skills and a pattern for their use that results in a continuous high rate of gaining adrenaline.
? - A collection of execution-level skills like target switching, timing enraging charge or lion's comfort to provide adrenaline at a moment of need, switching to a furious weapon when needed, lining up and timing multi-target attacks to maximize adrenaline gain, etc.
? - Being mindful of the 1 adrenaline drained from other skills when an adrenal skill is used.

Winterclaw · Oct 30, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

1. Doesn't matter that much, but swords and hammers have 3 of the 4 best elites for a warrior. Swords have hundred blades and dragonslash hammers have earthshaker. Check the sticky or pvxwiki.
2. Depends on the set up but they don't have quite the same usefulness that the other weapons have.
3. Don't waste ade by needlessly spamming attacks. Some builds you can spam very well (D-slash) others not so well. There are also a few skills that give you extra ade such as FGJ and Enraging charge.

Slasher of Darkness · Oct 30, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Hmmm..okay, this has quite helped me, Chthon's post especially was very nicely done

. Thanks guys, might even get this warrior some max titles if I don't get bored -.-.

Terek Zelta · Oct 31, 2009, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slasher of Darkness

1) Which weapon is the most useful in PvE?

They're all extremely useful! You should learn to play them all. There are three metas, though, that are most often used in endgame, and they are:

Dragon Slash + "Save Yourselves!" - This is a sword build. In fact, this is the sword build. This uses For Great Justice and Dragon Slash with 14 Swordsmanship to keep your party covered with SY. A lot of us combine this with Brawling Headbutt so that we also have the option of shutting an enemy down.

Hundred Blades + Mark of Pain - This is my favorite metagame build. Basically, you run Hundred Blades, Sun and Moon Slash and Whirlwind Attack, and your hero runs Mark of Pain, or even better: Your human buddy runs Assassin's Promise with Mark of Pain. Unfortunately, hero AI doesn't use Assassin's Promise very well, but this build is still excellent with Sabway.

Earth Shaker - AoE knockdowns, yay. I'm not as big a fan of this build because it's very dependent on being surrounded by enemies to maintain its adrenaline gain. Don't get me wrong, Earth Shaker is great at what it does, but it's just not fun for me to play. I'd rather blow stuff up instantly with Hundred Blades, or get a more reliable single target knockdown with Dragon Slash.

So at endgame, I'd say, overall, swords are used most, but don't let that discourage you from using other weapons and builds. I run axes a lot in endgame, just because the style of play suits me better, and as a result, I play better. So my advice: Play what you want to play in PVE. If you were in my group, I'd rather you play something you enjoyed and were good at, than something you didn't enjoy and weren't good with.

At the end of the day, all warrior weapons are capable of achieving about the same damage. In terms of damage, all three weapons are excellent.

I'll tell you why swords are used most: SY. Dragon Slash can maintain SY better than most other builds can. People see SY and they think, "Yay, we have +100 armor," but personally, I'd leave SY to the paragons. If there aren't any paragons, I only run SY when I'm being lazy, otherwise I run axes or I nuke with Hundred Blades, Mark of Pain and Ebon Battle Standard of Honor.

Save Yourselves is, and I'm going to get flamed for this pretty hard (wouldn't be the first time), extremely overrated on a warrior when you're not in an organized team. SY's range is shout range, and people like to scatter outside of it, or not be in it at all... often. Because SY is a shout, it also is its own form of adrenaline denial, which with Dragon Slash, isn't a problem at all, but bear in mind, warriors are damage dealers, and it does lower your damage output because you have to do this: Dragon Slash -> SY -> Autoattack, instead of Dragon Slash -> Dragon Slash -> Dragon Slash. And when 3 of the 8 people in your group are affected by it, it's often not worth it when you could just dismember an enemy in the same amount of time.

I only run SY when I'm lazy and don't feel like using proper technique, or I know for a fact that my team is going to suck so hard that we won't survive without it. And even then - I prioritize Brawling Headbutt over it, and use it as a form of aggro control, or as spike/nuke prevention/relief.

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2) I've heard that axe sucks in PvE? If that is true, why?

This is a very common opinion among the elitists, but axes don't suck in PVE. Okay, if you're going to run axes, you'll probably run one of three builds:

Warrior's Endurance - This is a great setup. You use Warrior's Endurance, with an axe's high max damage and attack speeds, to basically spam Power Attack, Protector's Strike, Cyclone Axe, Counterattack, PVE shouts like Finish Him! or Asuran Scan, etc. You can combine this with Asuran Scan, Dwarven Stability and Burst of Aggression for what is probably the most ridiculous pure damage build a warrior can achieve. A no-drawback, maintainable IAS, +75% damage, infinite energy, etc. The only problem is, with all those skills, it's actually somewhat clunky in practice. I keep my builds simple, because as a warrior, I rely heavily on my backline, and as such, I use the numpad to micro spells and prots, so I'm almost always playing two characters at any given time.

Triple Chop - This is basically a cookie cutter build. This skill is usable just about everywhere, and has good damage. Triple Chop + Whirlwind Attack + Cyclone Axe, and Dismember for a mini-spike, can provide you with excellent AoE damage provided you position yourself right. I never found this build to be remarkable when compared to Hundred Blades, but it can still holds its own well enough.

Eviscerate - My favorite. Oh, my baby! So many good memories.

A lot of people underestimate Eviscerate in PVE. In normal mode, with good adrenaline management, you'll be spiking every enemy you encounter, bringing them from 75% to nothing in the 3 seconds they're on the ground from Brawling Headbutt. Part of why they underestimate it in PVE is because it's 8 adrenaline, and people don't know to use furious mods, Cyclone Axe, or Lion's Comfort, or they hate For Great Justice's recharge and refuse to use that.

Without For Great Justice, you can build the adrenaline for Eviscerate in 2-3 seconds, provided you know how to do it, which I'll cover further down.

Here's the thing about the deep wound mechanic: It caps at 100 HP. It won't reduce your enemy's max HP by more than 100. Cthon said this already. That does limit its usefulness somewhat, mostly in hard mode, but even then, you can still provide a very good, very fast spike with your team, it just requires that the rest of your team be able to do some damage too. The only time Eviscerate is really unusable is against bosses like Cyndr, or Shiro, or during the MOX quests, things like that, because all of those bosses have massive amounts of HP, so you can't spike them with deep wound.

Again, I'm going to tell you: run what you think is the most fun for you. All of the warrior weapons are really well balanced in terms of damage output, so for general PVE, anything can work, and I know of plenty of people (not just me) who run Eviscerate in PVE, or run Defy Pain in hard mode, using an Eviscerate build where Eviscerate is replaced with another more useful skill, etc.

The only exception to this is Hundred Blades, which in its current state, is one of the most damaging skills in the entire game, but in order for Hundred Blades to be truly effective, you need Mark of Pain.

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3) Oh and I've heard such a thing like Adrenaline management, how do u manage adrenaline? I know bout e-management but not bout adrenaline management, how does one do it?

Adrenaline management is easy. The basic philosophy is this: Most adrenaline attacks have no recharge times. So, abuse it. If you're not spamming your attack skills 90% of the time you're fighting, you're doing something wrong.

While there aren't tons of skills devoted to adrenaline management, there are a few important ones you need to know about:

First and foremost, you need to know about furious mods. A lot of people underestimate furious mods because 10% doesn't sound like a lot. It is. You have to know how to use it and what to use it with.

Furious mods synergize ridiculously well with skills like Lion's Comfort, Enraging Charge, To the Limit, Cyclone Axe, etc. On top of that, it seems to interact with each of the aforementioned skills differently, but still effectively.

In tests, and by extension, in practice because I use these mods often now, a furious mod will net me 6-8 strikes of adrenaline about 2 out of 3 times when used with Enraging Charge, and 4-5 strikes of adrenaline with Lion's Comfort about half the time. That's a lot. In fact, that's downright stupid, but it fits with the whole "abuse the adrenaline mechanic" philosophy above.

I'm going to list some important skills we use to manage our adrenaline.

Enraging Charge - The bread and butter cancel stance and utility! This is one of my favorite skills in the whole game, because it's two skills in one, and is therefore efficient, and efficiency means everything to a warrior. Not only is this an amazing cancel stance for Flail, but it doubles as adrenaline management! Remember to time it right by using it some time before the fight, so its recharge doesn't slow you down.

Lion's Comfort - This is a skill most people approach as a self-heal. This is because of its old mechanic. That mechanic has since changed. This is not a self-heal this is the adrenaline equivalent to GoLE, and when used with a furious weapon, is going to be one of your best friends.

Cyclone Axe/Whirlwind Attack - AoE attacks. Cyclone Axe makes amazing adrenalin management, because it's an energy-based AoE attack, which means that it's independent of your adrenaline pool. See, a lot of people see the +11 damage and say, "Well that's not very good." But it is. It's a warrior's Volley, only potentially stronger. When you have Splinter Weapon cast on you and you crit, it does quite a bit of damage by itself, but remember: we use this primarily to manage our adrenaline, so we can churn out more Eviscerates, Body Blows or even Cleaves. When using swords, Whirlwind Attack is used in the same fashion.

Steelfang Slash - Use with Brawling Headbutt for all the adrenaline you'll ever need. No need to use this with a furious sword, as the +5 strikes of adrenaline will be more than enough to fuel your skills when used in conjunction with Dragon Slash.

To The Limit - Yeah, I know, it's in the Tactics line. But 8 Tactics makes this as good as Enraging Charge in terms of adrenaline gain. It's good. It's usable.

For Great Justice - This is less adrenaline management and more adrenaline god mode. When timed right, though, it can be used to great effect. I still wish the skill's functionality was a little different, but as it is, it's still great. This is a very straight forward skill: fire and forget.

There are others, such as Knee Cutter, but they're less useful. Hope this helps.

Slasher of Darkness · Oct 31, 2009, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Oh wow, it DID help..quite much :O, thanks

damkel · Nov 03, 2009, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

At the very high-end, sword is the best. Why? First, it's required for the insane (Assassin's Promise +) Mark of Pain + Hundred Blades + Whirlwind Attack combo.

You've got 3 professions in the one build? Did my game not install the latest patch which lets you have a tertiary profession? lolz.

on topic:

Warrior dervish is fun to play. See PvxWikia under Enduring Scythe. It's not as useful to your party as the D'slash + Dwarven headbutt combo but you can put "save yourselves" in there if you want.

Andrew Dunne · Nov 03, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by damkel

You've got 3 professions in the one build? Did my game not install the latest patch which lets you have a tertiary profession? lolz.

Assassins promise and mark of pain are run, (as someone said) on another character, ap needs human, if h/h then just mop is used. I guess thats what you were confused about as all the rest are warrior skills?

Chthon · Nov 03, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by damkel

You've got 3 professions in the one build?

There is such a thing as intra-team synergy in this game. You know, two or more players/heroes using builds that work together. You should try it sometime.

For those who somehow didn't get that this is TWO builds:

Player1: W/X
Brawling Headbutt
Sun&Moon
WW
SY!
100B
Frenzy(/Flail if insufficient prot on the team)
Enraging Charge
FGJ
(rez scroll)

Player2: N/A
Assassin's Promise
Mark of Pain
Barbs
EV Assassin
Finish Him
Enfeebling Blood
Technobabble/By Ural's Hammer/GDW
Reckless Haste/Rigor Mortis/Rend Ench/Meekness/Shadow of Fear
(rez scroll)

Necro calls MoP, warrior whacks it with WW+100B, thousands of damage instantly.